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Diskussions- und Newsboard des DARC-Ortsverbandes I40  |  allgemeine Kategorie  |  OVI40 SDR Projekt (English AND German discussions around OVI40 SDR project) (Moderatoren: DF8OE, DL1PQ, DL8EBD)  |  Thema: OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm <- zurück vorwärts ->
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SP3OSJ
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OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« am: 05. Mai 2018, 11:56:13 »

Now I've finished the TRX Sparrow project
I'm starting a new TRX Lapwing project
It will be TRX one band on 1.3GHz PA 18W out.
This is to popularize the 23cm band among amateur radio players.
TRX will have 3 PCBs
TRX will not have regulation.
It will have factory filters LFCN-1200 and HFCN-1200 (Mini Circuits) and one band filter on the strips PCB.
The power end is a hybrid RA18H1213G
There will be no generator duplicating frequency (problem regulation)
Will be synthesizer (no regulatio) on ADF4350 controlled ATiny13 + TCXO 10MHz or 25MHz (Arduino program -> ICSP connector)
This controller will be the same PCB from Sparrow based on OVI40.

TRX will have three frequency transformations (matemaic):
1240MHz / generator 1152 (ADF4350) -> 88MHz
88MHz / 70.4 (SI570) -> 17,6MHz
17.6MHz / 17.6 (SI570/4) -> I / Q signal

Software or colleagues will want to make changes to the firmware STM?
1) unblocking the transmitter for the operating band SI570 70.4MHz - 118.4MHz
(display: 17.6MHz - 29.6MHz)
2) Take that for the work SI570 70,4MHz was displayed on the display: 1240.000MHz
and for the SI570 118,4MHZ work the frequency of 1300.000MHz was displayed.

 23cm.JPG
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #1 am: 05. Mai 2018, 15:44:24 »

Super Artur!
You did in a short time TRX "SPARROW" and now you have developed a new TRX 23cm and unfortunately we have nothing new. Our OVI 40 stands still.
Congratulations on ideas and enthusiasm!
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #2 am: 05. Mai 2018, 16:15:19 »

Hi,

I have to admit, that I could not follow some of what you wrote but I think I got the idea.

Zitat von: SP3OSJ am 05. Mai 2018, 11:56:13
Software or colleagues will want to make changes to the firmware STM?
1) unblocking the transmitter for the operating band SI570 70.4MHz - 118.4MHz
(display: 17.6MHz - 29.6MHz)
This is already possible (with very low output power), just go to menu and enable TX out of bands. Don't know about the required input power for your circuit. This might not be enough to drive the TRX.

Zitat:
2) Take that for the work SI570 70,4MHz was displayed on the display: 1240.000MHz
and for the SI570 118,4MHZ work the frequency of 1300.000MHz was displayed.
If I understand your text correctly, you should be able to do this, just set XVTR Offs/Mult to 4 and XVTR Offset so that 17.6 Mhz are shown as 1240000.

I am willing to work on this if the currently existing firmware is not sufficient under the condition you provide the schematics for the Lapwing under a open license such as the OHL. 

Technically we would/should define a new RF hardware boards, which needs to be enabled in the menu and then the UHSDR firmware automatically does the right things (frequency display, extended transmit frequency range etc.). It seems to me that it is not possible to automatically detect that a Lapwing board is connected, however.

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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #3 am: 05. Mai 2018, 18:36:19 »

Hi Danilo

SI570 synthesizer step after modification is 5Hz (original 1Hz)
If this is a problem, you can change the synthesis step to max 100Hz
Changing the buttons from + -Band to + -1MHz will cause that
1) the OVI40 controller will have all of the keyboards used.
2) The 23cm band is wide at 60MHz, it will be easy to tune in such a large range

This is the beginning of this project.
I do not have all the parts yet
The first TRX final product at 23cm will last for one month.
Then it will be correcting the layout (it always is)
I am asking for patience
 23_cm.JPG
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #4 am: 05. Mai 2018, 19:23:50 »

Ich frage mich nur, welchen Sinn ein 48 kHz breites Spektrum- und Wasserfalldisplay bei dem Band noch hat ? Das kann dann wohl wegfallen...

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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #5 am: 05. Mai 2018, 19:40:03 »

Dies ist sehr nützlich.
Stationen senden eine etwas andere Frequenz (das ist 1300 MHz!!!)
und der klassische TRX wird es nicht hören. SDR LAPWING wird es auf dem Frequenzspektrum sehen  .
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #6 am: 06. Mai 2018, 08:41:21 »

OVI40 steht mitnichten still. Ich habe nur das Problem, dass ich meine Stromrechnungen, meine Kraftfahrzeugsteuer und den gesamten anderen Mist nicht bezahlen kann wenn ich nicht noch normal arbeite. Soviel Zeit wie Artur habe ich definitiv nicht zur Verfügung! Da dauert das leider länger. Aber das Projekt ist nach wie vor in voller Bearbeitung.

vy 73
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #7 am: 06. Mai 2018, 09:24:05 »

Hi,
as we talked with Artur on our Polish forum, we (I) can add code for ADF4350 to UHSDR firmware for setting the registers, have it working. We can then omit another cpu in this project and make it more flexible. I will use this chip for my RF board soon, so I will implement it anyway. The only one thing required is SPI port with CS which is already available on OVI40 board.
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #8 am: 06. Mai 2018, 09:56:17 »

Driving of VCO chip is not a problem at all - Slawek told it.

But in my opinion 48KHz bandwidth as span is not the best choice for bands higher than 2m. We will expand it to 96KHz on OVI40 because WM8731 supports it but 96KHz is too low, too. At 2m I want to see complete SSB area (which is ~250KHz) or complete FM relay area (which is ~200KHz). Even at 70cm it is much wider. Of cours there is a new band which can be worked but it would be a better idea to change complete concept for bands higher than 2m - just my opinion.

New theme:

It would be very interesting what way Artur wants to go. OVI40 has started to be a full Open Source project licensed under Cern OHL. So if I have finished PCBs for beta stage (!!) all schematics will be published and will be available under OHl license. Is lapwing intended to get an OHL license, too? That does not include that PCB data is published! We will not publish PCB data as long as PCBs are available from us. But we promise if we sometimes stop PCB selling data will be published.

vy 73
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #9 am: 06. Mai 2018, 10:55:17 »

Hmm, with 250kHz of span we are aproaching the DDC concept with more fancy (expensive) ADC/DAC chips, and without FPGA it may be not possible...

Edit: Or use the internal ADC with its limited dynamic to ~60dB...
« Letzte Änderung: 06. Mai 2018, 11:02:03 von SP9BSL » Moderator benachrichtigen   Gespeichert

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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #10 am: 06. Mai 2018, 11:38:50 »

Yes, that's what I am talking about..... Features we need for bands > 2m are a completely different project / concept. OVI40 never wants to cover that.

vy 73
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #11 am: 06. Mai 2018, 13:06:35 »

Schemes are a problem because they are my head.
I'm doing a PCB project out of my head.
If there is success, I do not have the desire to draw diagrams
I'd like to do another project.
This is the problem

Spectrum and waterline are very much needed at 1.3GHz.
The waterfall and spectrum are still more helpful at 10GHz
Everyone works there for a different frequency.
As there are propagation conditions, stations appear.
If the station does not emit on the call frequency.
Drift 100Hz TCXO is 5kHz 23cm Band.
SSB is 3kHz (CW~500Hz) you will not hear this with classic TRX.
SDR a waterfall will show such a station.
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #12 am: 06. Mai 2018, 13:56:38 »

Hi Artur,

I am developing same way as you do. But I have to learn and I want to learn. For working in a community it is not applicable to hold diagrams and layouts "in head". So I am working hard at this moment to get familar with KiCAD so that I can draw schematics and publish them in an "Open Source way". I have agreed that *i* have to learn to work this way for the future projects - and if you want to participate it would be a very good idea to act same way....

Actually 50% of delay in OVI40 project has its source in "my way of developing and realizing". So it's me that must change and learn and not the others.

Throwing a new PCB everytime I got a new idea of course is a way. But its a "dead end". The only one who knows what is going on is you (or me at my projects). But this is not appliable to working in community.

I will start to publish details of "legendary OVI40 rf" in the next weeks. Still I feel to be at the begining of learning process. But: As I jumped into mcHF I never have had done programming of such a complex software of embedded systems - and I never have had worked with STM32 before. Now I am familar with this. And same way I will get familar with drawing schematics with KiCAD.

I use KiCAD because of it is Open Source and well documented. Maybe there are things missing compared to commercial programs - but everything I need (include 50R technology of tracks) is available in KiCAD. So I am pressing myself to go this way. As all mankind I like to go the easiest way - but this way is not often the best one.

vy 73
Andreas
« Letzte Änderung: 06. Mai 2018, 14:04:15 von DF8OE » Moderator benachrichtigen   Gespeichert

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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #13 am: 06. Mai 2018, 16:36:46 »

Andres, I respect your opinion.
See how good it is to show the project at the time of its creation.
He wrote a ham radio to me after the publication of my PCB in this forum:
"Artur, please make a PCB without a hybrid that costs a lot."
Hmm ...
I thought and I made a chip breaking the LPF filter if you want to have 18W and not 0.5W.
See how I did it.
Now everyone is happy.
If someone wants to copy my project, I will be happy, it will mean that it is a good thing.
I work differently, you work differently.
Let's not change it
I will draw diagrams but I do not want to draw the OVI40 controller again, it has no sense. The rest is mcHF (control relays BPF, LNA) KX3 (IF RX), Tulip (balance mixer TX) and my PA (20W)
 _23cm.JPG
« Letzte Änderung: 06. Mai 2018, 16:37:22 von SP3OSJ »
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Re:OVI40 -> 1200MHz 23cm
« Antwort #14 am: 06. Mai 2018, 17:08:55 »

Hi Artur,

I do not think it is an opinion: it is a fact.

If there are no schematics (of course only schematics of the newly developed parts) it cannot be part of an Open Source project. Reason is very trivial: no "source", nothing "to Open Source".

Otherwise EVERYTHING is "Open Source", because you can reverse engineer everything where you do have physical access to the PCBs. But that's not the definition of "Open Source". Regardless if copying is protected by license (like on mcHF) or you do not publish schematics: it is closed for others if there are no schematics.

vy 73
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